Inset Drawer and Door Gap from
Sawmill Creek
This discussion began with a request for advice on what the gap should be for inset drawers and cabinet doors. The original poster received much advice, some of it practical, some of it humorous. – Editor
"I am making plans for a case with a face frame that will have some inset drawers and an inset cabinet door. The face will be made out of pine as will the drawers and the door. The drawer fronts and door will be 14+ 1/2" wide minus what I need for the gap. Right now I am planning on a gap of 1/16" for each side. I was going to use the same gap for the top and bottom. Is this about right? " – Keith
One response brought some philosophy along with the practical advice.
"The age-old 'how big of a gap' question was probably first asked when the very first wood box was invented. It's not a really an easy question and I am still asking it each time I build a set of cabinets. Factors such as wood stability, size of doors/drawers , quality of hinges/slides and your climate all play a role.
If you are making a heirloom piece of furniture with stable wood in an area with consistent humidity, I'd consider 1/32 gaps. Most of my work has used about .047 gaps (2/3's of a 1/16). That's with quality dry wood like cherry in a dry climate.
When you install the kitchen, I'd suggest leaving a fuzz bigger gap on the bottom. Blum tandems and hinges especially can settle a hair with use and weight. Never in the history of cabinetry has a door moved UP on its hinges..." – Steve
Another poster followed up on that last theory. - Editor
"With built-in cabinets, I like to do 3/32 or so and slightly bevel the door leading edge so it swings out nicely. Houses settle and rack things out of square. Hinges wear at the pins. Drawers get racked and overloaded. Edges get painted. Stuff happens. To me, gap consistency is far more important than gap size, and having things work 20 years from now is a good thing." – Josiah
The next poster mentioned not only his gap dimension, but what he uses to measure it – another area of followup in this discussion. – Editor
"Here in Connecticut we use nickels as shims to set the gap on inset doors and drawers. They are readily available, they are about .045" which works for this part of the country, and there are usually at least two in my pocket! I like to leave the doors the actual size of the opening and shave to fit with a combination jointer, edge sander and panel saw. This lets me overcome a bit of out of square should things not go perfectly during carcass construction. Check your hinges also to see what the maximum and minimum gaps they can provide are. As others have said, a consistent gap and a well-functioning door are preferable to a microscopic gap on doors that won't open and rub off the finish." – Peter
One poster used something besides a nickel for his spacers – and another put in his few cents' worth about the spacers. – Editor
"I built my kitchen with inset doors and drawers. I used a bunch of those Formica samples that you can get from the hardware store as spacers. It's probably about a sixteenth. I also used those no-mortise hinges as the spacer on the hinge side." – Jon
"The old joke: The boss told the carpenter to use a dime to fit the door. The boss came back and there were big gaps around the door. The boss said, 'I thought I told you to use a dime.' The carpenter said, 'I didn't have a dime, I used two nickels.'" - John
How do Foresters and Loggers Avoid Lyme Disease? from
Woodweb
This discussion began with a poster who is considering a new career in forestry – and who wants to minimize his risks when associating with the wood in the woods. – Editor
"Hi. I'm thinking about going back to college and becoming a forester, but I've heard a lot about deer ticks and Lyme disease in the Northeast. How do loggers and foresters minimize this risk?" - Ben
One response cited the typical suggestions relating to prevention of Lyme disease.
"From what I understand about Lyme's disease, the offending tick has to be attached to its host for more than 24 hours before the host contracts the disease. Simply put, if you are sure to check yourself daily for ticks, your risk of contracting Lyme's disease is greatly diminished. Also, using tick repellent, wearing light color clothes, and tucking your pant cuff into your boots will minimize ticks as well (some people even think garlic tablets help deter tick bites).
"If you enjoy working outdoors, and think you would otherwise be happy in forestery, don't let the threat of Lyme's disease deter you. Any career will have potential hazards- learn about them and take steps to avoid them, but don't let a potential risk keep you from doing something you want to do." – Tommy
The original poster then asked for clarification on some of the advice – and clarified that, he is certainly not averse to risk-taking, if he knows what the risks are.
"I've read about all the things you've said at various websites in the past, but some of them don't make complete sense to me just yet. For example, how are you supposed to find a tick that's the size of a poppy seed buried deep in the hair on your head, or worse, buried up your wazoo?
"One forester I spoke with about this, said that he pulled six deer ticks off his body last season. Of course, to your point, he doesn't really worry much about the disease either. Then again, he's just a kid out of college, so maybe he just hasn't been out in the field long enough to have acquired the disease...
"... or since he comes from a long line of foresters, maybe his family is immune to it, like the deer. :-)
"Having been an avid surfer, deer hunter (in the South) commercial pilot, skydiver (licensed jumpmaster), licensed scuba diver, offshore sailor, ski instructor and (lately) snowboarder, I've gotten pretty used to taking calculated risks in this life.
"I just like to know that I've evaluated the risk fairly accurately, and have reasonably minimized it." - Ben
Tommy responded with his personal experience and the thought that the disease is curable. - Editor
"I have been a professional forester for nearly 10 years, but I haven't worked in the Northeast. I work in Virginia, and while Lyme disease is present here, to my knowledge, it's not rampant.
"As far as my personal experience, during the summer I generally tuck my pant cuff into my boots when working in the woods, and check myself regularly. Personally, I don't like the chemicals like 'Off' and especially 'Permanone'- I'd rather have the ticks. In Virginia, the deer ticks are large enough to spot crawling on you pretty easily, not like the little seed ticks. If you get bitten by a tick, in most cases you can feel it in a few hours- it will start to itch.
"Of course, you do have a valid concern- a person could take all of these measures and more, and still miss the one tick that could give you Lyme disease. That's the risk you take. However, as I understand it, Lyme disease is curable with some antibiotics and you're as good as new." - Tommy
To which Ben responded with his own personal precautions – and more concern.
"Personally, I use permethrin-impregnated clothing, and DEET, but I agree it's not the ideal solution. (The cure could be worse than the disease :-))
"Yes, it is curable, but the problem, as I understand it, is that the disease mimics many others, and so is often mis-diagnosed as something less serious. Then by the time the mis-diagnosis is discovered, the Lyme disease has done its permanent damage.
"With all the new medical innovations these days, I was just hoping some forester on this forum had a 'magic bullet' :-)" – Ben
After this much discussion, a few other voices jumped in, sharing their own experiences with tick prevention – and a mention of the telltale bull's-eye. – Editor
"Also a forester in Virginia (friend of Tommy's), for five years. Worked at a summer camp in southeast Pennsylvania before that, and we had a lot more Lyme back home in PA than here. I have heard of people here getting misdiagnosed or not getting on the antibiotics as early as they should because doctors down here aren't as aware of it. You've got to tell them, 'I work outdoors, and I think I've been bitten by a tick.' But if you're moving to a place where it's very prevalent, the good part is that the doctors will be aware and expect it and screen for it. I think the bigger risk is you just shrugging off some fatigue and acheyness and not going to the doctor promptly.
"I'm also pretty well convinced that I find the ticks when they're on me. They itch pretty fiercely, at least for me. Sometimes I don't find them until the next morning, but I don't think any get past me." - Karen
"In northern Wisconsin we have alot of lymies. I'm in the woods a lot. Try to avoid tall dead grass or short brush, from time to time look over your pants to see if you have ticks, other than that don't worry about it." – Steve H.
"I'm not a forester but live in the woods of Minnesota and have found plenty of deer ticks on me, but only two that were burrowed in. Deer ticks tend to go for the waist line, I've never found one on my head. They burrow in to your skin and if they carry Lymes (not all deer ticks do) you will get a perfect bull's-eye around it." - Wes
"I used to hunt racoons at night with some hunters that were pretty serious about the sport. They would take sulphur tablets during this time of the year so ticks would not attach themselves to their skin. I never really understood how this worked, but it might be worth investigating. I would ask a physician or pharmacist for their input. One word of caution though: these things will give you the worst kind of gas." - Mitch